"Lee ya": N'ajụjụ ọnụ Anna Starobinets

Psychology: Gịnị mere ndị dọkịta Rọshịa ji meghachi omume n’ụzọ dị otú ahụ mgbe ha jụrụ ajụjụ banyere ite ime? Ụlọ ọgwụ niile anaghị eme nke a na obodo anyị? Ka ọ bụ iwu na-akwadoghị ite ime n'oge? Gịnị bụ ihe mere ndị dị otú ahụ iju mmekọrịta?

Anna Starobinets: Na Russia, ọ bụ naanị ụlọ ọgwụ pụrụ iche na-etinye aka n'ịkwụsị ịtụrụ ime n'ihi ihe gbasara ahụike na njedebe oge. N'ezie, nke a bụ iwu, ma ọ bụ naanị n'ebe ndị a kapịrị ọnụ. Dịka ọmụmaatụ, n'otu ụlọ ọgwụ na-efe efe na-efe efe na Sokolina Gora, bụ nke a hụrụ n'anya na-atụ egwu ndị inyom dị ime na ụlọ ọgwụ.

Na-ekwu nke ọma na nwatakịrị: akụkọ nke Anna Starobinets

Nwanyị chere ihu na ọ dị mkpa ịkwụsị ime ime n'oge ọzọ enweghị ohere ịhọrọ ụlọ ọrụ ahụike nke dabara ya. Kama, nhọrọ anaghị agafe ebe abụọ pụrụ iche.

As for the reaction of doctors: it is connected with the fact that in Russia there is absolutely no moral and ethical protocol for working with such women. That is, roughly speaking, subconsciously any doctor — whether ours or German — feels a desire to distance himself from such a situation. None of the doctors want to take delivery of a dead fetus. And none of the women do not want to give birth to a dead child.

Ọ bụ naanị na ụmụ nwanyị nwere mkpa dị otú ahụ. Na maka ndị dọkịta nwere ihu ọma ịrụ ọrụ na ụlọ ọrụ na-adịghị anabata nkwụsịtụ (ya bụ, ọnụ ọgụgụ ka ukwuu nke ndị dọkịta), ọ dịghị mkpa dị otú ahụ. Ihe ha na-agwa ụmụ nwanyị nwere ahụ efe na ụfọdụ ihe na-asọ oyi, na-enweghị nzacha okwu na ntugharị ma ọlị. N'ihi na ọ dịghị ụkpụrụ omume.

N'ebe a, ekwesịrị ịmara na mgbe ụfọdụ, dị ka o siri pụta, ndị dọkịta amaghị na n'ụlọ ọgwụ ha ka nwere ike inwe nkwụsị dị otú ahụ. Dị ka ihe atụ, na Moscow center. Kulakov, a gwara m na "ha anaghị emeso ihe ndị dị otú ahụ." Naanị ụnyaahụ, ndị nchịkwa nke etiti a kpọtụrụ m ma gwa m na n'afọ 2012, ha ka na-eme ihe ndị dị otú ahụ.

Otú ọ dị, n'adịghị ka Germany, ebe a na-ewu usoro iji nyere onye ọrịa aka n'ọnọdụ nsogbu na onye ọrụ ọ bụla nwere usoro doro anya nke omume n'ọnọdụ dị otú ahụ, anyị enweghị usoro dị otú ahụ. Ya mere, dọkịta ultrasound ọkachamara na pathologies ime ime nwere ike ọ gaghị ama na ụlọ ọgwụ ya na-etinye aka na nkwụsị nke ime ime ndị a, na ndị isi ya kwenyesiri ike na ọ ghaghị ịma banyere ya, n'ihi na ọkachamara ọkachamara ya bụ ultrasound.

Ma eleghị anya, e nwere ntụziaka tacit iji mee ka ụmụ nwanyị kwụsị ịtụrụ ime iji mụbaa ọnụ ọgụgụ ọmụmụ?

Oh no. Against. In this situation, a Russian woman experiences incredible psychological pressure from doctors, she is actually forced to have an abortion. Many women told me about this, and one of them shares this experience in my book — in its second, journalistic, part. She tried to insist on her right to report a pregnancy with a lethal pathology of the fetus, give birth to a child in the presence of her husband, say goodbye and bury. As a result, she gave birth at home, with a huge risk to her life and, as it were, outside the law.

Na Germany, ọbụna n'ọnọdụ nke nwatakịrị na-adịghị ike, ọ bụghị banyere nwatakịrị nwere otu Down syndrome, a na-enye nwanyị mgbe niile nhọrọ nke ma ọ ga-akọ banyere ime dị otú ahụ ma ọ bụ kwụsị ya. N'ihe banyere Down, a na-akpọkwa ya ịga leta ezinụlọ ndị ụmụaka nwere ụdị ọrịa ahụ na-etolite, a na-agwakwa ha na e nwere ndị chọrọ ịmụta ụdị nwa ahụ.

Na ọ bụrụ na enwere ntụpọ na-ekwekọghị na ndụ, a gwara nwanyị German na a ga-eme afọ ime ya dị ka ime ime ọ bụla ọzọ, mgbe ọ mụsịrị nwa, a ga-enye ya na ezinụlọ ya ụlọ ọrụ dị iche iche na ohere ịsị nwa ọhụrụ ahụ nke ọma. Ebe ahụ. Na kwa, na arịrịọ ya, a na-akpọ onye ụkọchukwu.

In Russia, a woman does not have a choice. Nobody wants a pregnancy like this. She is invited to go through «one step at a time» for an abortion. Without family and priests. Moreover, even in the case of non-lethal, but severe pathologies, the model of behavior of doctors is usually the same: «Urgently go for an interruption, then you will give birth to a healthy one.»

Gịnị mere i ji kpebie ịga Jamanị?

Achọrọ m ịga obodo ọ bụla ebe a na-eme njedebe oge ikpeazụ n'ụzọ mmadụ na nke mepere anya. Ọzọkwa, ọ dị m mkpa na m nwere ndị enyi ma ọ bụ ndị ikwu na obodo a. Ya mere, nhọrọ bụ na njedebe site na mba anọ: France, Hungary, Germany na Israel.

Na France na Hungary ha jụrụ m, n'ihi na. dịka iwu ha siri dị, enweghị ike ime ime n'oge na-adịghị anya na ndị njem nlegharị anya na-enweghị ikike obibi ma ọ bụ nwa amaala. N'Izrel, ha dị njikere ịnakwere m, ma ha dọrọ aka ná ntị na teepu na-acha uhie uhie nke ọchịchị ga-adịru ma ọ dịkarịa ala otu ọnwa. Na ụlọ ọgwụ Berlin Charité ha kwuru na ha enweghị ihe mgbochi maka ndị mba ọzọ, na a ga-eme ihe niile ngwa ngwa na nke mmadụ. Ya mere, anyị gara ebe ahụ.

Don’t you think that for some women it is much easier to survive the loss of a «fetus» and not a «baby»? And that parting, funerals, talking about a dead child, correspond to a certain mentality and are not suitable for everyone here. Do you think this practice will take root in our country? And does it really help women relieve themselves of guilt after such an experience?

Now it doesn’t seem to. After the experience I had in Germany. Initially, I proceeded from exactly the same social attitudes that practically everything in our country comes from: that in no case should you look at a dead baby, otherwise he will then appear in nightmares all his life. That you should not bury him, because «why do you need such a young, children’s grave.»

But about the terminological, let’s say, acute angle — «fetus» or «baby» — I stumbled immediately. Not even a sharp corner, but rather a sharp spike or nail. It is very painful to hear when your child, although unborn, but absolutely real for you, moving in you, is called a fetus. Like he’s some kind of pumpkin or lemon. It doesn’t comfort, it hurts.

As for the rest — for example, the answer to the question, whether to look at it after the birth or not — my position changed from minus to plus after the birth itself. And I am very grateful to the German doctors for the fact that throughout the day they gently but persistently offered me to “look at him”, reminded me that I still have such an opportunity. There is no mentality. There are universal human reactions. In Germany, they were studied by professionals — psychologists, doctors — and made part of statistics. But we have not studied them and proceed from antediluvian grandmother’s conjectures.

Yes, it is easier for a woman if she said goodbye to the child, thus expressing respect and love for the person who was and who is gone. To a very small — but human. Not for pumpkin. Yes, it’s worse for a woman if she turned away, didn’t look, didn’t say goodbye, left “as soon as possible to forget.” She feels guilty. She does not find peace. That’s when she gets nightmares. In Germany, I talked a lot about this topic with specialists who work with women who have lost a pregnancy or a newborn baby. Please note that these losses are not divided into pumpkins and non-pumpkins. The approach is the same.

Kedu ihe kpatara nwanyị nọ na Rọshịa nwere ike ịgọnarị ite ime? Ọ bụrụ na nke a dị ka ihe ngosi, mgbe ahụ, arụ ọrụ ahụ gụnyere na mkpuchi ma ọ bụ na ọ bụghị?

Ha nwere ike jụ naanị ma ọ bụrụ na enweghị ọgwụ ahụike ma ọ bụ mmekọrịta mmadụ na ibe ya, mana ọ bụ naanị ọchịchọ. Ma na-abụkarị ndị inyom na-enweghị ihe ngosi dị otú ahụ na-anọ n'ime afọ nke abụọ ma ha enweghị ọchịchọ ime otú ahụ. Ha chọrọ nwa, ma ọ bụ ọ bụrụ na ha emeghị, ha agbaala afọ ime tupu izu iri na abụọ. Ma ee, usoro nkwụsịtụ bụ n'efu. Ma ọ bụ naanị n'ebe pụrụ iche. Na, n'ezie, na-enweghị ụlọ ezumike.

Kedu ihe kacha emetụ gị n'obi gbasara okwu ndị ahụ jọgburu onwe ha na forums na mgbasa ozi ọha na eze nke ị dere banyere ya (i jiri ha tụnyere oke na okpuru ulo)?

I was struck by the total absence of a culture of empathy, a culture of sympathy. That is, in fact, there is no «ethical protocol» at all levels. Neither doctors nor patients have it. It simply does not exist in society.

Since we are Puritans, for the sin of copulation, a dirty woman is entitled to suffering — from sexual infections to childbirth. And since we are Sparta, we must go through these sufferings without even uttering a word. Hence the classic remark of a midwife at childbirth: “I liked it under a peasant — now don’t yell.” Screams and tears are for the weak. And there are more genetic mutations.

An embryo with a mutation is a culling, a spoiled fetus. The woman who wears it is of poor quality. Spartans don’t like them. She is not supposed to have sympathy, but a harsh rebuke and an abortion. Because we are strict, but fair: do not whine, shame on you, wipe your snot, lead the right way of life — and you will give birth to another, healthy one.

Kedu ndụmọdụ ị ga-enye ụmụ nwanyị nwere ịkwụsị ime ma ọ bụ nwee ime ọpụpụ? Kedu ka esi adị ndụ ya? Yabụ na ịghara ịta onwe gị ụta ma ghara ịdaba n'oké ịda mbà n'obi?

Here, of course, it is most logical to advise you to seek help from a professional psychologist. But, as I said a little higher, it is very difficult to find it. Not to mention that this pleasure is expensive. In the second part of the book “Look at him”, I talk exactly on this topic — how to survive — with Christine Klapp, MD, head physician of the Charité-Virchow obstetrics clinic in Berlin, which specializes in late pregnancy terminations, and performs not only gynecological, but and psychological counseling for their patients and their partners. Dr. Klapp gives a lot of interesting advice.

For example, she is convinced that a man needs to be included in the “mourning process”, but it should be borne in mind that he recovers faster after the loss of a child, and also has difficulty enduring round-the-clock mourning. However, you can easily arrange with him to devote to a lost child, say, a couple of hours a week. A man is capable of talking during these two hours only on this topic — and he will do it honestly and sincerely. Thus, the couple will not be separated.

Ma nke a bụ ihe niile n'ihi na anyị, N'ezie, a mpempe a kpamkpam ọbịa na-elekọta mmadụ na ezinụlọ ụzọ ndụ. N'ụzọ anyị, m na-adụ ọdụ ka ụmụ nwanyị na-ege ntị na mbụ niile n'obi ha: ma ọ bụrụ na obi na-erubeghị njikere "echefu na-ebi ndụ", mgbe ahụ ọ dịghị mkpa. Ị nwere ikike iru újú, n'agbanyeghị ihe ndị ọzọ chere banyere ya.

Unfortunately, we do not have professional psychological support groups at maternity hospitals, however, in my opinion, it is better to share experiences with non-professional groups than not to share at all. For example, on Facebook (an extremist organization banned in Russia) for some time now, sorry for the tautology, there is a closed group “Heart is open”. There is quite adequate moderation, which screens out trolls and boors (which is rare for our social networks), and there are many women who have experienced or are experiencing loss.

Ị chere na mkpebi ịdebe nwa bụ naanị mkpebi nwanyị? Ma ọ bụghị ndị mmekọ abụọ? A sị ka e kwuwe, ụmụ agbọghọ na-akwụsịkarị ime ha n'ihi arịrịọ enyi ha, bụ́ di. Ị chere na ụmụ nwoke nwere ikike na nke a? Kedu ka esi emeso nke a na obodo ndị ọzọ?

Of course, a man does not have the legal right to demand that a woman have an abortion. A woman can resist the pressure and refuse. And can succumb — and agree. It is clear that a man in any country is capable of exerting psychological pressure on a woman. The difference between conditional Germany and Russia in this regard is two things.

Nke mbụ, ọ bụ ọdịiche dị na nzụlite na koodu omenala. A na-akụziri ndị Western Europe site na nwata ka ha chebe oke onwe ha na ịkwanyere ndị ọzọ ùgwù. Ha na-akpachara anya maka aghụghọ ọ bụla na nrụgide uche.

Secondly, the difference in social guarantees. Roughly speaking, a Western woman, even if she does not work, but is entirely dependent on her man (which is extremely rare), has a kind of “safety cushion” in case she is left alone with a child. She can be sure that she will receive social benefits, on which one can really live, albeit not very luxuriously, deductions from the salary of the father of the child, as well as other bonuses for a person in a crisis situation — from a psychologist to a social worker.

N'ụzọ dị mwute, nwanyị Russia dị nnọọ mfe karị na ọnọdụ ebe onye òtù ọlụlụ achọghị nwa, ma ọ na-eme ya.

N'ezie, mkpebi ikpeazụ ga-anọgide na nwanyị ahụ. Otú ọ dị, n'ihe banyere nhọrọ "pro-life", ọ ghaghị ịma na ọ na-arụ ọrụ karịa nwanyị German na-enwe ọnọdụ, na ọ gaghị enwe ihe ọ bụla na-elekọta mmadụ, na alimoni, ma ọ bụrụ na ọ bụla, bụ ihe ọchị. .

Banyere akụkụ iwu: Ndị dọkịta German gwara m na ọ bụrụ na a bịa n'ịkwụsị ime ime, sịnụ, n'ihi ọrịa Down syndrome, ha nwere ntụziaka iji nlezianya nyochaa di na nwunye ahụ. Na, ọ bụrụ na e nwere enyo na nwanyị kpebiri ime ime n'okpuru nrụgide sitere n'aka onye òtù ọlụlụ ya, ha na-aza ozugbo, mee ihe, kpọọ onye ọkà n'akparamàgwà mmadụ, kọwaara nwanyị ahụ ihe uru mmekọrịta ya na nwa e bu n'afọ nwere ikike ma ọ bụrụ na ọ bụ ya. amuru. N'okwu ha, ha na-eme ihe niile enwere ike ime ka ọ pụta na nrụgide a ma nye ya ohere ịme mkpebi onwe ya.

Ebee ka amuru umuaka? Na Russia? Ọ̀ bụkwa ọmụmụ ha nyeere ha aka idi nsogbu ahụ?

The eldest daughter Sasha was already there when I lost the child. I gave birth to her in Russia, in the Lyubertsy maternity hospital, in 2004. She gave birth for a fee, «under the contract.» My girlfriend and my ex-partner were present at the birth (Sasha Sr., the father of Sasha Jr., could not be present, he then lived in Latvia and everything was, as they say now, “difficult”), during the contractions we were provided with a special ward with shower and a big rubber ball.

Ihe a niile dị ezigbo mma ma na-emesapụ aka, naanị ekele sitere na Soviet gara aga bụ otu agadi nwanyị na-ehicha akwa nke nwere bọket na mop, bụ onye batara n'ime anyị ugboro abụọ, sachaa ala anyị nke ọma wee jiri nwayọọ na-atụgharị onwe ya n'okpuru ume ya. : “Lee ihe ha chepụtara! Ndị nkịtị na-amụ nwa dinara ala.

I didn’t have epidural anesthesia during childbirth, because, supposedly, it’s bad for the heart (later, a doctor I knew told me that just at that time in the Lyubertsy house something was wrong with anesthesia — what exactly was “not right”, I do not know). When my daughter was born, the doctor tried to slip a pair of scissors into my ex-boyfriend and said, «Daddy’s supposed to cut the umbilical cord.» He fell into a stupor, but my friend saved the situation — she took the scissors from him and cut something there herself. After that, we were given a family room, where all four of us — including a newborn — and spent the night. In general, the impression was good.

A mụrụ m nwa m nke ọdụdụ, bụ́ Leva, na Latvia, n’ụlọ ọgwụ Jurmala mara mma, nwere ọrịa epidural, mụ na di m m hụrụ n’anya. A kọwara ọmụmụ ndị a na ngwụcha akwụkwọ a lee Ya anya. Na, n'ezie, ọmụmụ nwa nwoke nyeere m aka nke ukwuu.

There is such a thing as «empty hands». When you are expecting a child, but for some reason you lose it, you feel with your soul and body around the clock that your hands are empty, that they do not have what should be there — your baby. The son filled this void with himself, purely physically. But the one before him, I will never forget. And I don’t want to forget.