"Anyị na-edina ahụ anyị site n'ụtụtụ ruo ná mgbede - ma ndị ọzọ ma anyị onwe anyị"

Psychology: Ànyị na-echedị ahụ́ anyị ka akụkụ nke onwe anyị? Ma ọ bụ na anyị na-eche ahụ dị iche iche, na ụdị anyị onwe anyị iche?

Marina Baskakova: N'otu aka ahụ, onye ọ bụla, n'ozuzu, nwere mmekọrịta nke ya na ahụ. N'aka nke ọzọ, e nwere n'ezie ụfọdụ ọnọdụ omenala nke anyị na-emetụta ahụ anyị. Ugbu a, ụdị omume niile na-akwado nlebara anya na ahụ, na akara ya, na ike ya aghọwo ihe a ma ama. Ndị na-emeso ha ihe na-ele ya anya dịtụ iche karịa ndị dị anya n'ebe ha nọ. N'omenala Ndị Kraịst anyị, ọkachasị ndị Ọtọdọks, ndò a nke nkewa n'ime mmụọ na ahụ, mkpụrụ obi na ahụ, onwe na ahụ ka dị. Site na nke a na-ebilite ihe a na-akpọ ihe jikọrọ anụ ahụ. Ya bụ, ọ bụ ụdị ihe ị nwere ike ijikwa, kwalite ya, chọọ ya mma, wuo oke akwara, na ihe ndị ọzọ. Na ebumnuche nke a na-egbochi mmadụ ịghọta onwe ya dị ka ahụ, ya bụ, n'ozuzu mmadụ.

Gịnị bụ iguzosi ike n'ezi ihe nke a?

Ka anyị chee echiche banyere ihe ọ bụ. Dị ka m kwuru, na Christian, karịsịa Ọtọdọks, omenala, ahụ e kewapụrụ ruo ọtụtụ puku afọ. Ọ bụrụ na anyị ewere nkọwa gbasara ọha mmadụ n'ozuzu ya, ajụjụ a bụ: ahụ ọ̀ bụ onye na-ebu mmadụ ma ọ bụ ọzọ? Onye na-eyi onye, ​​na-ekwu okwu.

O doro anya na anyị na-ekewapụ onwe anyị na ndị ọzọ, onye ọ bụla n'ime anyị dị n'ime ahụ nke ya. N'echiche a, ịṅa ntị na ahụ, na akara ya, na-akwado ihe onwunwe dị otú ahụ dị ka onye ọ bụla. N'otu oge ahụ, omenala niile, n'ezie, na-akwado ụfọdụ ịdị n'otu nke ndị mmadụ: anyị dị n'otu, anyị na-eche otu ihe ahụ, anyị nwere ọtụtụ ihe jikọrọ. Nke a bụ akụkụ dị oke mkpa nke ịdị adị. Ihe na-eme ka njikọ dị n'etiti ndị si n'otu obodo, otu omenala, otu obodo. Ma mgbe ahụ, ajụjụ na-ebilite nke nguzozi n'etiti mmadụ n'otu n'otu na mmekọrịta mmadụ na ibe ya. Ọ bụrụ na, dịka ọmụmaatụ, nke mbụ na-akwado oke oke, mgbe ahụ, mmadụ na-atụgharị onwe ya na mkpa ya, ma na-amalite ịdaba n'ụdị mmadụ. Mgbe ụfọdụ, ọ na-aghọ owu ọmụma, n'ihi na ọ na-aghọ ndị dị otú ahụ ọzọ na ịdị adị nke ọtụtụ ndị ọzọ. Nke a na-ebute ma anyaụfụ na mgbakasị ahụ mgbe niile. Maka onye ọ bụla, n'ozuzu, ị ga-akwụ ụgwọ. N'ụzọ ọzọ, ọ bụrụ na mmadụ na-ezo aka na "anyị", nke a na-anabatakarị, ụkpụrụ niile dị adị, mgbe ahụ ọ na-ejigide mkpa dị oke mkpa maka ịbụ. A bụ m n'otu omenala, obodo ụfọdụ, n'anụ ahụ a na-amata m dị ka mmadụ. Ma mgbe ahụ, esemokwu na-ebilite n'etiti onye ahụ na ndị a na-anabatakarị. Na anyị corporality, esemokwu a na-apụtachaghị ìhè.

It is curious how the perception of corporality differs in our country and, for example, in France. It always amazes me there when someone, having come to a conference or to a secular company, suddenly comes out, saying: «I’m going to go make wee-wee.» They take it as completely normal. It’s hard to imagine this in our country, although in fact there is nothing indecent in this. Why do we have a completely different culture of talking about the simplest things?

Echere m na nke a bụ otú nkewa nke ime mmụọ na nke anụ ahụ, n'ime elu na ala, nke e ji mara omenala anyị, na-egosipụta onwe ya. Ihe niile gbasara "wee-wee", ọrụ okike, dị n'okpuru ebe a, n'akụkụ omenala a jụrụ ajụ. Otu ihe ahụ metụtara mmekọahụ. Ọ bụ ezie na ihe niile yiri ka ọ bụ ya ugbua. Ma olee otú? Kama, n'ihe gbasara ihe. Ahụrụ m na ndị di na nwunye na-abịa oriri na ọṅụṅụ ka na-esiri ha ike ịkparịta ụka. Ọ bụ ezie na e nwere ọtụtụ ihe a pụrụ ịkpọ mmekọahụ gburugburu, ọ dịghị n'ezie na-enyere ndị na-akpachi anya mmekọrịta, kama na-agbagọ ha. Ọ dịla mfe ikwu banyere ya, ma, n'ụzọ megidere ya, ọ na-esiri ike ikwu banyere ụfọdụ mmetụta, banyere nuances ha. N'agbanyeghị nke a, ọdịiche a ka dị. Naanị tụgharịa. Na French ma ọ bụ, n'ụzọ sara mbara karị, omenala Katọlik, ọ dịghị otú ahụ siri ike ịjụ aru na corporality.

Ị chere na onye ọ bụla na-aghọta ahụ ya nke ọma? Anyị na-eche ọbụna n'ezie akụkụ ya, parameters, akụkụ?

Ọ gaghị ekwe omume ikwu maka onye ọ bụla. Iji mee nke a, ịkwesịrị izute onye ọ bụla, kwuo okwu ma ghọta ihe ọ bụla gbasara ya. Enwere m ike ịgwa gị maka ụfọdụ njirimara m na-ezute. Ọtụtụ ihe na-abịa na nnabata nke ndị na-enweghị nghọta doro anya banyere onwe ha ma dị ka mmadụ ma dị ka onye na-etinye aka na ahụ. E nwere ndị nwere echiche gbagọrọ agbagọ nke nha nke ha, mana ha anaghị aghọta ya.

Dịka ọmụmaatụ, onye toro eto, nnukwu nwoke na-ekwu "aka", "ụkwụ" n'onwe ya, na-eji okwu ụfọdụ ndị ọzọ dị ntakịrị ... Gịnị ka nke a nwere ike ikwu? Banyere eziokwu na n'akụkụ ụfọdụ nke ya ọ bụghị n'otu afọ, ọ bụghị na nha nke ọ dị. Ihe dị n'ụdị ya, na ahụmahụ nke onwe ya, metụtara nwata. A na-akpọkarị nke a dị ka nwa ọhụrụ. Ụmụ nwanyị nwere mgbagha ọzọ nke m na-ahụkwa: ha chọrọ ịdị nta. Enwere ike iche na nke a bụ ụfọdụ ụdị ịjụ nha ha.

Psychologists talk about how important it is to be able to hear the signals of your body — it can be fatigue, pain, numbness, irritation. At the same time, in popular publications, we are often offered a decoding of these signals: a headache means something, and back pain means something. But can they really be interpreted that way?

When I read this kind of statements, I see one important feature. The body is spoken of as if it were isolated. Where are the body signals? Body signals to whom? Body signals in what situation? If we talk about psychosomatics, some of the signals are intended for the person himself. Pain, who is it for? In general, me. To stop doing something that hurts me. And in this case, the pain becomes a very respected part of us. If you take fatigue, discomfort — this signal refers to some neglected, often ignored part. It is customary for us to not notice fatigue. Sometimes a pain signal is intended for the person in a relationship with whom this pain occurs. When it is difficult for us to say, it is difficult to express our feelings or there is no reaction to our words.

Then the psychosomatic symptoms already say that you need to distance yourself from this, do something else, finally pay attention to yourself, get sick. Get sick — that is, get out of a traumatic situation. It turns out that one traumatic situation is replaced by another, more understandable one. And you can stop being too hard on yourself. When I get sick, I feel a little less ashamed that I can’t cope with something. There is such a legal argument that supports my personal self-respect. I believe that many illnesses help a person to slightly change his attitude towards himself for the better.

We often hear the phrase «The body does not lie.» How do you understand it?

N'ụzọ dị ịtụnanya, ọ bụ ajụjụ dị aghụghọ. Ndị na-ahụ maka ahụ ike na-ejikarị akpaokwu a. Ọ mara mma, n'uche nke m. N'otu aka, nke a bụ eziokwu. Dị ka ihe atụ, nne nke obere nwa na-achọpụta ngwa ngwa na ọ na-arịa ọrịa. Ọ na-ahụ na anya ya ebelatala, ịdị ndụ apụọla n'anya. Ahụ na-egosi mgbanwe. Mana n'aka nke ọzọ, ọ bụrụ na anyị echeta ọdịdị mmekọrịta mmadụ na ibe ya, mgbe ahụ ọkara nke ịdị adị nke ahụ anyị gụnyere ịgha ụgha nye ndị ọzọ banyere onwe anyị. Ana m anọdụ ala kwụ ọtọ, n'agbanyeghị na achọrọ m ịdaba, ụdị ọnọdụ adịghị mma. Ma ọ bụ, dịka ọmụmaatụ, m na-amụmụ ọnụ ọchị, mana n'eziokwu, iwe na-ewe m.

Enwere ọbụna ntuziaka maka otu esi eme omume iji nye echiche nke onye nwere obi ike…

N'ozuzu, anyị na-edina na ahụ anyị site n'ụtụtụ ruo ná mgbede, na onwe anyị kwa. Dị ka ihe atụ, ọ bụrụ na anyị eleghara ike ọgwụgwụ anya, o yiri ka anyị na-agwa onwe anyị, sị: “Aka m ike karịa ka ị na-agbalị igosi m.” Onye na-ahụ maka ahụike ahụ, dịka ọkachamara, nwere ike ịgụ akara nke anụ ahụ ma dabere na ọrụ ya na ha. Ma akụkụ ahụ ndị ọzọ na-agha ụgha. Ụfọdụ akwara na-akwado ihe nkpuchi a na-egosi ndị ọzọ.

Kedu ụzọ isi mee ka ahụ gị dịkwuo mma, mara ya nke ọma, ịghọta ya, ka gị na ya bụrụ enyi?

Enwere nnukwu ohere: ịgba egwu, egwu, ije ije, igwu mmiri, ime yoga na ndị ọzọ. Ma ebe a ọrụ dị mkpa bụ ịhụ ihe na-amasị m na ihe na-adịghị amasị m. Kụziere onwe gị ịmata ihe mgbaàmà nke ahụ. Ọ na-atọ m ụtọ ma ọ bụ tinye onwe m n'ime usoro mmemme a. Dị nnọọ ka / enweghị mmasị, chọrọ / achọghị, achọghị / ma m ga-. N'ihi na ndị okenye ka na-ebi n'ọnọdụ a. Ọ na-enyekwara aka nke ukwuu ịmara naanị onwe gị. Mee ihe ị chọburu ime. Chọta oge maka nke a. Isi ajụjụ nke oge abụghị na ọ dịghị adị. Na eziokwu ahụ bụ na anyị anaghị ewepụ ya. Ya mere were na n'usoro ihe omume gị wepụta oge maka ihe ụtọ. Maka otu ka ọ na-eje ije, nke ọzọ na-abụ abụ, nke atọ ọ na-edina n'ihe ndina. Ime oge bụ isi okwu.

The interview was recorded for the joint project of Psychologies magazine and radio «Culture» «Status: in a relationship» in April 2017.